Congrats to Team Hybrid...

Dave Brookes - World Champion in Rookie and 1st in SQC
John Marsh - World Champion Pro Ultimate
Andy Jones - World Champion Semi pro class
Rick Sellars - World Champion in Amateur Ultimate class

Congrast also go out to Rick Nichols and Hajji Grape for their placements and the rest of Team Hybrids!

J

Nice, well done guys! :cool:

Hows it world champions if its only the yanks who realisticly take part?

Because america is the world :lol:

My bad.

The upcoming EMMA finals is the World Finals, IMO.

At the recent 'World' finals, there were about 50 cars competing. Later this month in Denmark there will be over 300. :smokin:

At the recent 'World' finals, there were about 50 cars competing.
I thought it was 125? How many cars are going to be at IASCA Euros?

You do have a point about the EMMA Euros and the misnomer re: IASCA "World" Finals, but the name sticks from a time when they actually *were* the world finals.. and EMMA probably didn't even exist.

There is a growing number of people competing in IASCA US that acknowlege that actually this probably isn't the world finals.. but really, who cares what they call it? It's still a cool event with some of the top cars in the world.

The upcoming EMMA finals is the World Finals, IMO.

At the recent 'World' finals, there were about 50 cars competing. Later this month in Denmark there will be over 300. :smokin:


Stop **** stiring with that big stick of yours. :shake: :shake: :shake:

Hows it world champions if its only the yanks who realisticly take part?

Last year Team DLS shipped in a car from Thailand to compete and a few years ago John Robinson of IASCA UK shipped his car over to compete. The Americans like to call it the World Finals as we all know the world only revolves around America??? But to be fair it should be called the American Finals as these 2 cars shipped over are only one off examples and the expense of doing so is huge. It would be nice to see the Americans competing against us Europeans and then we could really show them how we could kick their arses. :D :D :D

It would be nice to see the Americans competing against us Europeans and then we could really show them how we could kick their arses. :D :D :D

in fairness big boy thats kinda both mine and Niges opinion too...

X00 no of cars is more of a true "competition" between national styles / installs / SQ preferences and abilities...

I'm sure the guys in the states thank you all very much for your kind words, guys.

I'm sure the guys in the states thank you all very much for your kind words, guys.

no disrespect meant...

No disrespect but from what I have heard UK/European cars tend to sound a hell of a lot better than the American cars. Install is install, a good install will always score near enough maximum points but these guys cannot call themselves true World Champions when in the World Finals they are competing against the same cars all year long it would be nice to see an America vs Europeans clash although how this would come about logistics wise would be a nightmare, but I'd put my money on the UK/European guys any day.

No disrespect but from what I have heard UK/European cars tend to sound a hell of a lot better than the American cars. Install is install, a good install will always score near enough maximum points but these guys cannot call themselves true World Champions when in the World Finals they are competing against the same cars all year long it would be nice to see an America vs Europeans clash although how this would come about logistics wise would be a nightmare, but I'd put my money on the UK/European guys any day.

and i think you greatly underestimate what the americans are capable of sound wise

Congratulations to all who took part and the manufacturers who supported :)

and i think you greatly underestimate what the americans are capable of sound wise

I know you judged over there Nathan but you haven't judged in the US for a couple of years nor in the Uk for the last year and as you know yourself what you heard years ago is not the same sound as present day cars. From what I have gathered about US cars I think you greatly underestimate the present day UK/European cars.

Good to hear from you again as I thought you'd left the competition scene maybe we might see you in Italy.

Anyway roll on IASCA Team UK Italy just over a week away.

From what I have gathered about US cars I think you greatly underestimate the present day UK/European cars.
Most people would reserve comment until they'd actually heard what they're insulting. But hey, each to their own - I'm sure it's possible to gather what an entire country's cars sound like from 3000+ miles away :)

Most people would reserve comment until they'd actually heard what they're insulting. But hey, each to their own - I'm sure it's possible to gather what an entire country's cars sound like from 3000+ miles away :)

1 Who said I was insulting them? There you go putting words in peoples mouths again.

2 Each to their own - Yes this is my opinion

3 I know Scott let you polish his car for him so I suppose you could say you've dipped your toe in the competition scene so I guess yeah your right and you know what a good car sounds like.

4 I live in Ireland I ain't 3000+ miles away maybe 2,500.

5 Enough said I ain't turning this into a slagging match but at least respect my opionions.

Jesus Anthony, did you get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? :D

Look, we've had UK judges for several years now. Frankly, judges from all over the world as well (Russia, Malaysia, Singapore, South Africa, Trinidad, etc., etc., etc). Not to start a ****ing war, but two of your very best SQ judges got out of my Nissan Altima during the ISQC round in 2004 and said "we don't have this where we come from."

Adding to the discussion, I have heard Europe's 'finest' offerings at the last several CES events, and, well, they were marginal at best. Very "in your face" sound with no stage depth and abysmal position to soundstage. And the ones I heard only have image placement from one seat. When you ask to sit in the passenger side, you are refused.

And it's called a 'world finals' because of many things: more than half the judges are international, there are competitors from Canada every year, and most years there are international competitors from such places as Thailand, France, Japan, Mexico, Barbados, Brazil, UK, etc. Numbers may be down, but there's not a marginal car in the group; all sound excellent and damn near max out installation.

Jesus Anthony, did you get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? :D

Look, we've had UK judges for several years now. Frankly, judges from all over the world as well (Russia, Malaysia, Singapore, South Africa, Trinidad, etc., etc., etc). Not to start a ****ing war, but two of your very best SQ judges got out of my Nissan Altima during the ISQC round in 2004 and said "we don't have this where we come from."

Adding to the discussion, I have heard Europe's 'finest' offerings at the last several CES events, and, well, they were marginal at best. Very "in your face" sound with no stage depth and abysmal position to soundstage. And the ones I heard only have image placement from one seat. When you ask to sit in the passenger side, you are refused.

And it's called a 'world finals' because of many things: more than half the judges are international, there are competitors from Canada every year, and most years there are international competitors from such places as Thailand, France, Japan, Mexico, Barbados, Brazil, UK, etc. Numbers may be down, but there's not a marginal car in the group; all sound excellent and damn near max out installation.


Good to hear from you Scott.

Just to clear a few things up. As I said earlier I ain't turning this into a slagging match and I ain't taking away from the competitors who won at the World Finals but I do feel that it is very unfair to call it a World Finals, granted judges come from all over the world to judge at the Finals but the competitiors as you say come from USA and Canada.

Last year there was one car from Thailand but this year how many cars came from elsewhere in the world besides USA and Canada? I think it would be more suited to being called the American/Canadian Finals. It is not very fair to have the World Finals in the States every year. I think a better idea would be for the World Finals to be held in Europe next year, the following year in Asia and then back to the States for the year after that and alternate it every year throughout the world this way it would give competitors in Europe and Asia who can not afford to ship cars to the States an equal bite of the cherry.

As for European cars as you said your car was judged by European judges in 2004 it is now 2007 and I'm sure you'd be the first to agree with me that 3 years is a long time in car audio and in such time the European level has come a long way. Ask Chris Olbrum what he thinks of the European level as he was very impressed with some of the cars at the IASCA European Finals in Kiev (Ukraine) last year. We too get international judges. You said you have listened to Europe's finest at several of the CES events, but I don't think these were IASCA format cars? Hopefully in the future you will get to listen to IASCA Europe's cars. We can also max out in install when we are judged by international judges.

Just to finish off Scott, no I didn't get out the wrong side of bed this morning:sleep: but it just seems to be that when I post on this formum sometimes certain individuals (keyboard warriors) like to jump down my throat.

As I said in one of my earlier posts no disrespect to those who won in the States but I am entitled to my opinion and I don't like words being put in my mouth.

All the best for now, hope to see you this side of the pond soon.

I know you judged over there Nathan but you haven't judged in the US for a couple of years nor in the Uk for the last year and as you know yourself what you heard years ago is not the same sound as present day cars. From what I have gathered about US cars I think you greatly underestimate the present day UK/European cars.

Good to hear from you again as I thought you'd left the competition scene maybe we might see you in Italy.

you will see me in italy anthony as ive been spending a little bit of time tuning the source cars up for the finals

thats right anthony i judged two of the world finals your also forgetting i drove to st petersburg in russia to do the emma finals
so im probably one of the few people on this forum that has actually heard the best from both sides of the world and the uk also

if i were to choose whom had the best sounding single car it would undoubtedly be the americans (gary biggs and scott buwalda)
if i were to choose the single best install it would be the russians
(dont even ask me to pronounce his name )

the uk has neither of these accolades but it does has something
the gap between the best and the worst is actually not very big in the uk (a credit to its judges for feedback and its competitors for there enthusisasm ) the usa has a massive gap between the best and worst cars and very little in the form of feedback

Slightly off topic, but you seem to be pointing that way, so here we go.

Would any of you who have experience both sides of the pond say that the distinct differences between the US and European cars (before customisation) makes a difference to how good you can get the install to sound? I'm thinking along the lines of wider cars making PLDs different and possibly things like additional space for kick builds?

Thank you Nath, and cheers Anthony. No worries mate, I was just defending the yankee's a bit.

fatbloke (great username BTW): My most successful car in the competition lanes was a Nissan S14 (a 200SX in the UK). I had an Altima for a period of time as well, but it is only about 40-50cm wider than the S14. Gary's car was a Buick Regal, which was only a bit bigger than the Altima. We have found that that is about the right width to make everything come together sound-stage wise. A really wide car and then you begin to suffer pathlength difference anomolies that just can't be corrected. The inverse is true...the "backseat" drivers that you saw a few Americans come up wth in the mid- to late-90's, like Kirk Perry's car, had fantastic pathlength differences...a few cm for each seat, but because you were litterally sitting in the back seat, the width was abysmal.

Scott

Scott, thanks for the reply. I think it's absolutely fantastic that any forum exist where someone in the Uk can ask a very simple question and get a reply from an international Legend within a few hours.

Reading between the lines a bit, it seems that a wide car is probably going to make life harder, and positioning is about finding an ideal location, which may not be as wide as possible or as far forward as possible.

Thanks mate. It's no trouble. The trouble is having thirty or forty good car audio forums internationally to have to 'divide' time between. This one here at TA is one of the best...I need to stop by more often.

Basically, my experience is that the wider the car, the better the stage width, and in most cases, the more apt the stage is going to extend beyond the lateral boundaries of the car. In big dave Brooks' truck (Rookie USA and Canada national champion from this year), he has a monolithic-sized Ford F250 crew cab, a mega-sized truck. With some time and amplitude alignment, we got a VERY sweet soundstage (enough to win the SQC against multiple IASCA and MECA champions). Turn off the time alignment, and put the intensity back to "centered", and the center image is far left of center (left-hand drive vehicle). The benefit of his truck though, is staging. The stage is wider than the truck, even to the point of needing a new reference point, like the tip of the side mirrors.

I am convinced any car can be made to sound good. It takes some real work to make them sound good from two seats. if IASCA goes forward with plans to ake virtually every class next year judged from two seats, it will be back to the drawing board for a few of our Team Hybrid's (http://www.hybrid-audio.com/team_hybrids.htm) vehicles, where we go back to traditional pathlength-equalized "americanized" front stages.

Scott

it's quite suprising just how many european cars rely on time allignment these days, what ever happened to the good old fashioned way of doing things like getting the mechanical side of things right ie-pld's...

Even now there is a world of difference between the cheaper units with TA and the higher end units. Is it possible that the electronics are better nowadays to allow the use of TA?

I see exactly were you're coming from though Marko. If you get the mechanical things right then you don't have to 'fix it' later whilst tuning.

Porky front end version 438 coming soon ;) :D

As Scott pointed out earlier.. equalised PLD's is great in theory, but can lead to a narrowing of the stage due to the way it's achieved, so it's not necessarily the best way to go for a given vehicle.

As Scott pointed out earlier.. equalised PLD's is great in theory, but can lead to a narrowing of the stage due to the way it's achieved, so it's not necessarily the best way to go for a given vehicle.

there's more than one way of skinning a cat, back seat driver set ups is not one imo, like mentioned the stage will be very narrow, position to stage will be awsome though :lol:

you have to think outside the box....

like mentioned the stage will be very narrow, position to stage will be awesome though :lol:



This is not always as easy as it sounds! When judging, the reference point is the windscreen, so just because you are 6 feet away, it doesn't mean you will score well. :)