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Mondeo won't start (TDCI)


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#1 tej

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 10:08

Basically I tried to start up the Mondeo and it just made a loud whirring noise but wouldn't turn over.. I thought maybe the starter has frozen over or jammed (not like its stupidly cold compared to some countries though?)..

Tried starting it a few times and it wouldn't turn over.. the same happened to my mum at work a few days ago but it eventually turned over and fired up luckily otherwise she would have been stuck late in the evening with no-one around and no-one close by to help...

Anyway, I put the car in gear, rocked it back and forth to try and free up the jam, tried it again and it fired up?

Common problem? poor mainteneance or part failure? Whats the solution? :)

ps, its an '04 TDCi 130 diesel, recently serviced by Ford iirc

Edited by tej, 20 Dec 2009 - 10:11.


#2 Oily

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 10:10

Sounds like the bendix is sticking
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#3 longboard

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 10:12

sounds like the starter is not throwing into the flywheel new starter or recon yours

#4 HeavyChevy

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 10:31

Yep and keep a hammer in the car, a sharp tap on the ass end of the starter generally frees it up for a while. I had a Dolomite that I had a hammer in for a couple of months as I was too skint to change the starter.It was all right until I parked nose on the the thames in a pub carpark and getting it started involved laying on the floor with my feet in the river! It could just need a clean up, sometimes if it gets cack on the shaft the bendix won't move. Whip the starter off, clean and degrease the shaft and grind the lead from a pencil down on some wet and dry paper and use the dust to lube the shaft. Don't on any account use any oil just graphite dust. It might well solve the problem. On the other hand it might just be goosed.
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#5 VD

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 11:01

Err Tej.

You are going to hate me now.

BUTTTTTT.............

A failed starter is a common sign of a failing Dual Mass Flywheel, caused by bits of metal from the DMF going up into the starter motor and mashing it all up.

If this is the case then you are looking at approx £1200 to replace the starter, DMF, clutch and release bearings, its not worth doing anything else with these cars as it is a subframe and box out job.

I STRONGLY ADVISE you dont replace the starter without checking it for metal filings carefully, otherwise you will be in for lots of money as it WILL die again.

Here are a few threads discussing it....

http://www.fordmonde...php?tid/775614/

http://www.stdrivers....php?tid/10714/

http://www.fordmonde...php?tid/817590/


Like i say, sorry dude, but would rather be honest with you. If its an 03 or 04 plate 130 with over 40k thats done lots of town miles then i would say this is 95% the cause and not a duffed up starter.

Ends are not bad things, they just mean that something else is about to begin.

And there are many things that don't really end, anyway, they just begin again in a new way.

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#6 lollyvision

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 12:31

Totally agree with VD ive been out to look at a couple like this and had that problem.

#7 Pikachu

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 13:06

change the starter and flog it and hope the person who buys it has more money that you do that way its kind of more fair. :raz:

#8 Bass_junkie123

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 13:57

My uncle had the prob VD described, he ended up scrapping it, lol. :(

#9 tej

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 17:06

wow, thought the DMF would have lasted longer than 25k miles! Although it just does pure stop/start driving from cold

I suspected the DMF was on the way out as the car developed that weird knocking/warbly noise from the back of the engine a few hundred miles ago..

Sounds like thats going to be it then :( Going to have to book it in I guess :(

Thanks for the suggestions guys :) I guess we can always try bump starting it for now :lol:

#10 DEVICES

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 17:25

Do they still recommend replacing the whole kit and caboodle with 'old skool' normal solid setups instead of refitting DMF again?

I could have sworn Euro Car Parts were advertising the kit last time I went into one.

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#11 VD

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 17:29

No they do not mate, its a bad idea - people have complained that it causes bad running plus has caused more than a few boxes to die on startup!

25k is VERY low for a fail. If the car gets laboured in low gears or the clutch is slipped a lot it can kill it. What years the car?

My 115 is on 120k and it may be on the way out, but it may also be the release bearing, which is not an issue lol!

Ends are not bad things, they just mean that something else is about to begin.

And there are many things that don't really end, anyway, they just begin again in a new way.

Ends are not bad and many ends aren't really an ending; some things are never-ending. 


#12 Guinness

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 17:36

Ive just had the DMF and clutch (came as a kit) replaced on my 52 plate TDCi. I was taking the starter motor off, cleaning it and putting it back on for months before I got round to replacing the DMF.
Luckily I have a mate that done the job for me and the kit itself was 'only' £320.

As VD said, the starter problem is a sure sign that the DMF is on it's way out, on mine it got that bad I had a rattling noise on tickover and unless it was my imagination i'm sure the biting point kept changing.

If it does turn out to be the cause and you get it replaced they do a conversion kit for a solid flywheel which is meant to last longer.

Edit: Sounds like that last bit is a bad idea, good job I went for the dual mass kit.

Edited by Guinness, 20 Dec 2009 - 17:39.

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#13 leepee

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 17:46

Heh, DMFs are so crap. Why do they even bother with them? I'm glad I only buy crap old cars :P
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#14 tej

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 17:51

No they do not mate, its a bad idea - people have complained that it causes bad running plus has caused more than a few boxes to die on startup!

25k is VERY low for a fail. If the car gets laboured in low gears or the clutch is slipped a lot it can kill it. What years the car?

My 115 is on 120k and it may be on the way out, but it may also be the release bearing, which is not an issue lol!


Its an 04 and yeah mum seems to labour it in high gears a bit too much, but its probably because Ford marketeers got their way with the silly 6speed box and its oddly spaced gears, the 5 speed was far better imo

#15 VD

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 19:06

you have to consider how a DMF works, and what its trying to do, which explains how they break.

at low revs (and diesels do a lot of work under 2k) a 4 pot is inhernelt lumpy, which tied with modern diesel torque curves causes lots of power pulses on each cylinder fire.

this causes the engine to give jolts to the transmission.

the DMF uses rubber dampers between the 2 masses to "dampen" these - so anything you do to allow more than a normal amount of these pulses will cause the DMF to die rapidly.

Basically 1500 revs + MINIMUM, and dont slip the clutch.

Ends are not bad things, they just mean that something else is about to begin.

And there are many things that don't really end, anyway, they just begin again in a new way.

Ends are not bad and many ends aren't really an ending; some things are never-ending. 


#16 longboard

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 19:56

you can now get cheaper dmf kits from luk but cheapness may mean it will be worse than a genuine item
dmfs take some serious hammer heat load etc
you can get solid kits but they can make the cars very harsh and vibrate quite badly
thats why the dmf are fitted to begin with
id have a look at the starter if its scrap get that done first then worry bout the dmf when it dies

#17 tej

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 20:06

you have to consider how a DMF works, and what its trying to do, which explains how they break.

at low revs (and diesels do a lot of work under 2k) a 4 pot is inhernelt lumpy, which tied with modern diesel torque curves causes lots of power pulses on each cylinder fire.

this causes the engine to give jolts to the transmission.

the DMF uses rubber dampers between the 2 masses to "dampen" these - so anything you do to allow more than a normal amount of these pulses will cause the DMF to die rapidly.

Basically 1500 revs + MINIMUM, and dont slip the clutch.


Not much you can do, when I drive the car I can feel it not liking the low revs but its different when it comes to mums its a different story.. I still think its partly to do with the stupidly spaced gears.. when I drive that car I'll find myself in 3rd at low revs I instinctively change down to 2nd, but suddenly you end up at an engine speed that feel uncomfortably high for low load cruising...

Give me a VTEC with twice the rev range any day ;)

#18 leepee

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 21:28

you have to consider how a DMF works, and what its trying to do, which explains how they break.

at low revs (and diesels do a lot of work under 2k) a 4 pot is inhernelt lumpy, which tied with modern diesel torque curves causes lots of power pulses on each cylinder fire.

this causes the engine to give jolts to the transmission.

the DMF uses rubber dampers between the 2 masses to "dampen" these - so anything you do to allow more than a normal amount of these pulses will cause the DMF to die rapidly.

Basically 1500 revs + MINIMUM, and dont slip the clutch.


Well yeah, I know and understand them, but they're a crap way to solve the problem. You can't really deny that, and I know there were loads of early santa fe Hyundais that we replaced back to the old type on. If it was me, I'd fit the old style. Worst thing that'll happen is you'll spend a few hundred on a new gearbox later though if it's built right I doubt that will happen.
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#19 Chas

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Posted 20 Dec 2009 - 21:42

You want balancers shafts built into an engine :D. Smoothness then is near enough guaranteed :D.

If it were me I'd convert to a solid flywheel. But as said it sounds like the classic signs of a DMF failing.

A quick fix is to clean the starter motor out of the iron filings which will be a short term cure.
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#20 Sati_007

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Posted 21 Dec 2009 - 00:39

dual mass flywheels suck , end of , mk5/6 golf have this install and vw had to replace them all for them to fail again and it was costing them more money so they replaced them with a normal flywheel which is alot better to drive and seems better at taking lunch's (gti, r32) i lernt to drive in an mk 5 golf gt tdi and it frist had the dmf and it went and was replaced with smf and was fine and the car get alot of clutch abuse!
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